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8 tigers and 2 jaguars seized from property!
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Quagga



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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since when is it cruel to save an animal? It's the equivalent of leaving a baby bird that has fallen from its nest alone - seeing as how the parents might not even bother with it, why should you attempt to help it? Goodness, how cruel and wrong it is to try and help it...

She won't always kill it. Other times, it dies, and the mother continues to try and care for it.
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Alexander



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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that's what the article is talking about, Quagga. They are saying that these people took the cubs for illogical reasoning, and because of that, the cubs died.

Otherwise, of course I would understand the other reasons such as mothers wanting to kill their cubs for an odd reasoning to our minds and siblings pushing another away.

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Lexiestarz :D



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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You cant save everything, life is life. You cant help it, and if the baby dies then it dies. It may be cruel, but it happends in the wild everyday.
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Mook



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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, life happens. and it hits u in the face when it does too.
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Kenya



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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please remember to keep this a discussion and avoid referencing it to "humans are bad, save the animals" kind of talk.
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Quagga



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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't speaking of the topic, I only saw that yous seemed to be bashing other places for doing it, even when they were doing it for -logical- reasons. Of course illogical reasons exist, and when it's for profit such as this, of course I'll agree and say that it's stupid. But the wording made me - makes me - think yous were accusing all zoos and peoples of doing wrong. Even members here who have tried to help animals, such as a chick having fallen from a nest.
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Døøm Dragøn



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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lexiestarz Very Happy wrote:
Quagga wrote:
You do realize, however, that it's also to help ensure that the young are healthy? They don't want to lose the young. Yes, keeping them with their mothers is a good thing indeed, however sometimes even parents turn against their young, or things can be avoided even with the help of humans.

What about the one baby of a litter that gets pushed aside and can't be taken care of by the mother because the siblings push it aside? What if it is too weak to move? What if it falls ill, and later dies because of some sickness that could have been seen, prevented, and/or cured if they had only been paying attention and watching more closely?

The people are there to increase their chances of survival. That is all. They do not purposefully steal them away just to be mean and cruel. They monitor the young to make sure that they are healthy. It may be a bit distressing to the mother, but they're returned, are they not?

Other times the mom is not experienced, or she poses a threat, or is sick, or simply abandons them. There are good reasons, it's not just to be mean, cruel, inhumane monsters.





The mother will either kill/remove the ill or sick young one because she knows it wont make it. Its life, and it goes on. It doesnt mean you take them away from her. It's cruel and wroung.


Actually, I have to agree with Quagga here. If a whole species of animals is at risk it is best that the most offspring make it so the population maybe raised. If the mother does not want the young, why leave it? Save a life no matter how small.

Though a whole litter is sometimes taken away, they are usually reunited with their parents when they are the proper age such as on some wolf documentaries.
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SouthernStar



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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lexiestarz :D wrote:
Quagga wrote:
You do realize, however, that it's also to help ensure that the young are healthy? They don't want to lose the young. Yes, keeping them with their mothers is a good thing indeed, however sometimes even parents turn against their young, or things can be avoided even with the help of humans.

What about the one baby of a litter that gets pushed aside and can't be taken care of by the mother because the siblings push it aside? What if it is too weak to move? What if it falls ill, and later dies because of some sickness that could have been seen, prevented, and/or cured if they had only been paying attention and watching more closely?

The people are there to increase their chances of survival. That is all. They do not purposefully steal them away just to be mean and cruel. They monitor the young to make sure that they are healthy. It may be a bit distressing to the mother, but they're returned, are they not?

Other times the mom is not experienced, or she poses a threat, or is sick, or simply abandons them. There are good reasons, it's not just to be mean, cruel, inhumane monsters.





The mother will either kill/remove the ill or sick young one because she knows it wont make it. Its life, and it goes on. It doesnt mean you take them away from her. It's cruel and wroung.


Sorry, but I agree with Quagga. They only kill the young because it's taking away her resources and lowering the chances for the others to survive. It would make no difference if the cub was killed or taken away, the mother doesn't care. But on the cubs side, it would rather be taken away than killed. We're simply doing it a favour. If you were ill, with a deadly yet curable disease, would you rather have the cure or perish?
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Alexander



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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quagga wrote:
I wasn't speaking of the topic, I only saw that yous seemed to be bashing other places for doing it, even when they were doing it for -logical- reasons. Of course illogical reasons exist, and when it's for profit such as this, of course I'll agree and say that it's stupid. But the wording made me - makes me - think yous were accusing all zoos and peoples of doing wrong. Even members here who have tried to help animals, such as a chick having fallen from a nest.


I speak for the article, nothing else.

I don't know why I would think all Zoos were bad if I never considered talking about them. When it's an article, I focus on that, and that only. Nothing else. If it talked about Zoos helping to rescue babies that were being abused by an aggressive mother, then I would give my opinion on that (which is that I would praise them greatly for doing so).
I'm not so (is it closed minded or one sided?) as to suddenly blast out at every rescue team out there saying that they are stupid and don't deserve to do such a thing. I'm speaking of the people that took the babies away for no good reason in this article and this one only.

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animalguy888



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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alexander wrote:
Quagga wrote:
I wasn't speaking of the topic, I only saw that yous seemed to be bashing other places for doing it, even when they were doing it for -logical- reasons. Of course illogical reasons exist, and when it's for profit such as this, of course I'll agree and say that it's stupid. But the wording made me - makes me - think yous were accusing all zoos and peoples of doing wrong. Even members here who have tried to help animals, such as a chick having fallen from a nest.


I speak for the article, nothing else.

I don't know why I would think all Zoos were bad if I never considered talking about them. When it's an article, I focus on that, and that only. Nothing else. If it talked about Zoos helping to rescue babies that were being abused by an aggressive mother, then I would give my opinion on that (which is that I would praise them greatly for doing so).
I'm not so (is it closed minded or one sided?) as to suddenly blast out at every rescue team out there saying that they are stupid and don't deserve to do such a thing. I'm speaking of the people that took the babies away for no good reason in this article and this one only.

I agree with the quaga not all zoos are bad my local zoo just got rid of its most populer beluga attraction. Not for money but to move on to the next up of hopefully geting them to the wild. there most popular belugas have been in the prosses of rehabilitation.

As for the topic pepe seems to have said him self he is penniless. I respect him for his love for animals. But when heis out of money and his animals are not in the best condition and liveing on scraps with cubs to think about. He should know that its time for the animals to go to a more suitable home. Even if he does love them there not goiing to be the happiest in the condition their in. If he really does love them he should let someone else takeover for a while. He says he wants to prove that Mexico can take care of animals just as well as america. Its not about that its about the welfare of his animals. Even if he can't help in big ways like that. Theres always a smaller way to help out to add up to something big.
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Lexiestarz :D



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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I realy have to disagree with Quagga. Even though there helping, they still shouldnt. I understand about the decline in species of a /curtian/ type of animal, but still. You dont take a cub/pup away from its mother. Same with humans, I mean its not right.
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animalguy888



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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lexiestarz Very Happy wrote:
I realy have to disagree with Quagga. Even though there helping, they still shouldnt. I understand about the decline in species of a /curtian/ type of animal, but still. You dont take a cub/pup away from its mother. Same with humans, I mean its not right.


Ever seen that show growing up wolf. They took the pups away at birth if not theres another female in their thats at hgiher rank and she would have killed those puppies. so to presurve them they handrais them then put them back when their older and more likely to survive. Even without this the got to take the pup/cub away at birth and have a vet go over it and make sure its fine then retunr it to mom. I agree that its best to be with its mom but sometimes its best if their not so they can survive. For example my pet house sparrow peep. He was 24 hours old when he came to us. he was bald and had no pin feathers. he was pretty much only a hatchling. A crow aattacke the nest and he fell out. His sibling that was with him died on impact. So we took him in. My mom did not know how to raise a sparrow so she took him to may neighbors who is a big navy man. He teared up a bit and said "I CANT". so he watered the grass took wires and a batery and shocked worms out of the dry hot summer ground. we chped up the wroms and fed him that. then researched it and fed him mushed cherrios then to a baby bird food recipe we found. no one thought he would live and he did he will be two years old this summer.
My point is that if we put him back with his mother and did not take matters into our hands he would not see day three of his life. It my sound strange but sometimes puting a infant unhealty animal back with its mother is not the best idea. Most likely the mother will not accept it. If its an animal like a tiger especally ones these rare,It does nothing for the species if you put it back with its mother in unhealthy liveing conditions.
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Lysander



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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If was a tiger and I had babies, I'd let no zoo keeper get a hold of them.
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skeer-Ah wrote:
If was a tiger and I had babies, I'd let no zoo keeper get a hold of them.


As would any mother, but if a few of my young were very ill and there was nothing I could and I still had my human mentality I would allow anything so they may live.
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SouthernStar



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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lexiestarz :D wrote:
I realy have to disagree with Quagga. Even though there helping, they still shouldnt. I understand about the decline in species of a /curtian/ type of animal, but still. You dont take a cub/pup away from its mother. Same with humans, I mean its not right.



They take them away near birth (Though I'm pretty sure not ALL zoos do that.) to check to see if anything wrong happened during birth of develepment while in the mother's womb. Some of the things I bet they check for is worms, disease, diabete's(?), and cancer. They do this to make sure the young grow up healthily to see their own cubs/pups/chicks grow up happily. I'm pretty sure they return them after the health checks. Otherwise, I can just say their crazy.(I'm also sure that they'd leave the young with their mother for atleast 1 or 2 hours before the health check, of course, otherwise I'll say they're crazy too.) I think they take away the baby from the (human)mother to do the health checks too. And they bring the mother with the baby. But of course with animals they can't do that or the (animal)mother will just go crazy as she doesn't understand the situation.
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