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Dophins should be treated as "non human persons"?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:15 am    Post subject: Dophins should be treated as "non human persons"? Reply with quote

The latest news on Dophins,


Dolphins have been declared the world’s second most intelligent creatures after humans, with scientists suggesting they are so bright that they should be treated as “non-human persons”.

Studies into dolphin behaviour have highlighted how similar their communications are to those of humans and that they are brighter than chimpanzees. These have been backed up by anatomical research showing that dolphin brains have many key features associated with high intelligence.

The researchers argue that their work shows it is morally unacceptable to keep such intelligent animals in amusement parks or to kill them for food or by accident when fishing. Some 300,000 whales, dolphins and porpoises die in this way each year.

“Many dolphin brains are larger than our own and second in mass only to the human brain when corrected for body size,” said Lori Marino, a zoologist at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia, who has used magnetic resonance imaging scans to map the brains of dolphin species and compare them with those of primates.
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“The neuroanatomy suggests psychological continuity between humans and dolphins and has profound implications for the ethics of human-dolphin interactions,” she added.

Dolphins have long been recognised as among the most intelligent of animals but many researchers had placed them below chimps, which some studies have found can reach the intelligence levels of three-year-old children. Recently, however, a series of behavioural studies has suggested that dolphins, especially species such as the bottlenose, could be the brighter of the two. The studies show how dolphins have distinct personalities, a strong sense of self and can think about the future.

It has also become clear that they are “cultural” animals, meaning that new types of behaviour can quickly be picked up by one dolphin from another.

In one study, Diana Reiss, professor of psychology at Hunter College, City University of New York, showed that bottlenose dolphins could recognise themselves in a mirror and use it to inspect various parts of their bodies, an ability that had been thought limited to humans and great apes.

In another, she found that captive animals also had the ability to learn a rudimentary symbol-based language.

Other research has shown dolphins can solve difficult problems, while those living in the wild co-operate in ways that imply complex social structures and a high level of emotional sophistication.

In one recent case, a dolphin rescued from the wild was taught to tail-walk while recuperating for three weeks in a dolphinarium in Australia.

After she was released, scientists were astonished to see the trick spreading among wild dolphins who had learnt it from the former captive.

There are many similar examples, such as the way dolphins living off Western Australia learnt to hold sponges over their snouts to protect themselves when searching for spiny fish on the ocean floor.

Such observations, along with others showing, for example, how dolphins could co-operate with military precision to round up shoals of fish to eat, have prompted questions about the brain structures that must underlie them.

Size is only one factor. Researchers have found that brain size varies hugely from around 7oz for smaller cetacean species such as the Ganges River dolphin to more than 19lb for sperm whales, whose brains are the largest on the planet. Human brains, by contrast, range from 2lb-4lb, while a chimp’s brain is about 12oz.

When it comes to intelligence, however, brain size is less important than its size relative to the body.

What Marino and her colleagues found was that the cerebral cortex and neocortex of bottlenose dolphins were so large that “the anatomical ratios that assess cognitive capacity place it second only to the human brain”. They also found that the brain cortex of dolphins such as the bottlenose had the same convoluted folds that are strongly linked with human intelligence.

Such folds increase the volume of the cortex and the ability of brain cells to interconnect with each other. “Despite evolving along a different neuroanatomical trajectory to humans, cetacean brains have several features that are correlated with complex intelligence,” Marino said.

Marino and Reiss will present their findings at a conference in San Diego, California, next month, concluding that the new evidence about dolphin intelligence makes it morally repugnant to mistreat them.

Thomas White, professor of ethics at Loyola Marymount University, Los Angeles, who has written a series of academic studies suggesting dolphins should have rights, will speak at the same conference.

“The scientific research . . . suggests that dolphins are ‘non-human persons’ who qualify for moral standing as individuals,” he said.

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Vargen Saphia



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like that everybody should be treated with respect even if they aren't smart.
It's like throwing a lot of rotten fruits and vegetables on somebody just because 'she is not as intelligent as we are, so she have no rights that stops us from doing like this'.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Animals are animals and should be treated as such.
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Vargen Saphia



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Humans are animals and should be treated as such.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vargen Saphia wrote:
Humans are animals and should be treated as such.


Which is generally what happens during war.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raptor wrote:
Animals are animals and should be treated as such.


I wish I could throw you into a cage and watch you say that to the cramped in bear's face! Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DøømDråg¤n wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Animals are animals and should be treated as such.


I wish I could throw you into a cage and watch you say that to the cramped in bear's face! Smile


Amazingly enough, good zoos actually do research and make good habitats for their animals. Since y'know, there's rules and regulations that have to be followed.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never typed anything about a Zoo. It's called a bear trap, the big kinds. Would suck to be in one of those.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DøømDråg¤n wrote:
I never typed anything about a Zoo. It's called a bear trap, the big kinds. Would suck to be in one of those.


Then you should have specified you meant a trap. Rolling Eyes Those are generally used to catch bears that are destructive and dangerous around camp sites. They've been known to break into cars and eat things. Eat the wrong thing and it can cause the bears death due to an intestinal blockage.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raptor wrote:
Animals are animals and should be treated as such.

Reading that from my side, it means that all animals including humans, should be treated all the same.
Humans are so dumb! They think they can play somekind of god to the other species! They think that only humans have the right to say who's gonna get killed or who's gonna live. If a wolf kills or damage about 48 sheeps, it's probably likely that it's gonna get shoot, while if a humans does it, it get's to live but in jail / prison in mostly countries that I know.

Humans aren't fair against thoose who doesn't do what they want, I'm a living proof of that. Being treated as if I had no feelings or rights or a will is not what I call "fun".
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vargen Saphia wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Animals are animals and should be treated as such.

Reading that from my side, it means that all animals including humans, should be treated all the same.
Humans are so dumb! They think they can play somekind of god to the other species! They think that only humans have the right to say who's gonna get killed or who's gonna live. If a wolf kills or damage about 48 sheeps, it's probably likely that it's gonna get shoot, while if a humans does it, it get's to live but in jail / prison in mostly countries that I know.

Humans aren't fair against thoose who doesn't do what they want, I'm a living proof of that. Being treated as if I had no feelings or rights or a will is not what I call "fun".


It isn't nice to call yourself names. Of course the wolf is going to get shot. In this poor economy, people can't afford to lose animals like that. Ranchers aren't exactly rich people.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raptor wrote:
Vargen Saphia wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Animals are animals and should be treated as such.

Reading that from my side, it means that all animals including humans, should be treated all the same.
Humans are so dumb! They think they can play somekind of god to the other species! They think that only humans have the right to say who's gonna get killed or who's gonna live. If a wolf kills or damage about 48 sheeps, it's probably likely that it's gonna get shoot, while if a humans does it, it get's to live but in jail / prison in mostly countries that I know.

Humans aren't fair against thoose who doesn't do what they want, I'm a living proof of that. Being treated as if I had no feelings or rights or a will is not what I call "fun".


It isn't nice to call yourself names. Of course the wolf is going to get shot. In this poor economy, people can't afford to lose animals like that. Ranchers aren't exactly rich people.


Did they get threw high school or collage. Being poor is no excuse...
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DøømDråg¤n wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Vargen Saphia wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Animals are animals and should be treated as such.

Reading that from my side, it means that all animals including humans, should be treated all the same.
Humans are so dumb! They think they can play somekind of god to the other species! They think that only humans have the right to say who's gonna get killed or who's gonna live. If a wolf kills or damage about 48 sheeps, it's probably likely that it's gonna get shoot, while if a humans does it, it get's to live but in jail / prison in mostly countries that I know.

Humans aren't fair against thoose who doesn't do what they want, I'm a living proof of that. Being treated as if I had no feelings or rights or a will is not what I call "fun".


It isn't nice to call yourself names. Of course the wolf is going to get shot. In this poor economy, people can't afford to lose animals like that. Ranchers aren't exactly rich people.


Did they get threw high school or collage. Being poor is no excuse...


In many cases, they only got through highschool. College anymore is a luxury. Unless you're rich or you happen to win tons of scholarships/grants, you're going to come out of college in debt from loans unless you work entirely though college, which isn't easy since college is stressful enough. For instance, for me, books and tuition cost about $1,800 this semester. A semester lasts about 16 weeks, or four months. That's a lot of money to be paying out every four months. On top of things, my college isn't considered an expensive one.

With ranchers, in many cases, the ranch has been handed down through the generations and the children are expected to take over once the parents get too old to work the ranch. Which means, the ranch is the only source of income. If they have a bad calving/kidding/lambing season, or have a high rate of predation, they're not going to have much to sell at the auctions which results in them not having enough money to pay bills. That's the last thing people need in this poor economy, especially with things being so high priced.

Additionally, if the ranchers door poorly, this causes the price of meat to go up. Guess who has to pay more money for food? You and me..Although, I suspect you're of the age where you don't see the grocery bill, let alone know how much food costs.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raptor wrote:
DøømDråg¤n wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Vargen Saphia wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Animals are animals and should be treated as such.

Reading that from my side, it means that all animals including humans, should be treated all the same.
Humans are so dumb! They think they can play somekind of god to the other species! They think that only humans have the right to say who's gonna get killed or who's gonna live. If a wolf kills or damage about 48 sheeps, it's probably likely that it's gonna get shoot, while if a humans does it, it get's to live but in jail / prison in mostly countries that I know.

Humans aren't fair against thoose who doesn't do what they want, I'm a living proof of that. Being treated as if I had no feelings or rights or a will is not what I call "fun".


It isn't nice to call yourself names. Of course the wolf is going to get shot. In this poor economy, people can't afford to lose animals like that. Ranchers aren't exactly rich people.


Did they get threw high school or collage. Being poor is no excuse...


In many cases, they only got through highschool. College anymore is a luxury. Unless you're rich or you happen to win tons of scholarships/grants, you're going to come out of college in debt from loans unless you work entirely though college, which isn't easy since college is stressful enough. For instance, for me, books and tuition cost about $1,800 this semester. A semester lasts about 16 weeks, or four months. That's a lot of money to be paying out every four months. On top of things, my college isn't considered an expensive one.

With ranchers, in many cases, the ranch has been handed down through the generations and the children are expected to take over once the parents get too old to work the ranch. Which means, the ranch is the only source of income. If they have a bad calving/kidding/lambing season, or have a high rate of predation, they're not going to have much to sell at the auctions which results in them not having enough money to pay bills. That's the last thing people need in this poor economy, especially with things being so high priced.

Additionally, if the ranchers door poorly, this causes the price of meat to go up. Guess who has to pay more money for food? You and me..Although, I suspect you're of the age where you don't see the grocery bill, let alone know how much food costs.


What makes you so special. Bet you would not last a day as a dolphin or one of your goats or mice.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considering the goats and mice are raised as food, you point, whatever it might be, is null. I'm also fairly sure you wouldn't make it a day being a rancher. After all, I'm sure it's much nicer to stay inside where it's nice and warm than go outside in 15 degree weather for hours on end taking care of animals.
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